Why Your Students Get Chatty During Transitions (And How to Stop It) [Episode 254]

Heidi 0:00
This is episode 254 of Teacher Approved.

Heidi 0:06
You’re listening to Teacher Approved, the podcast helping educators elevate what matters and simplify the rest. I’m Heidi.

Emily 0:13
And I’m Emily. We’re the creators behind Second Story Window, where we give research based and teacher approved strategies that make teaching less stressful and more effective. You can check out the show notes and resources from each episode at secondstorywindow.net.

Heidi 0:28
We’re so glad you’re tuning in today. Let’s get to the show.

Emily 0:36
Hey there. Thanks for joining us today. In today’s episode, we are sharing tips for how to tame the chatter before, during, and after transitions, and we’ve got a teacher approved tip that is perfect for spring fever.

Heidi 0:50
But let’s start with a try it tomorrow, where we share a quick win that you can try in your classroom right away. Emily, what is our suggestion for this week?

Emily 0:58
This is one of those low-effort, high-impact moves that can shift the whole feel of your classroom. So when something goes sideways, like there’s a conflict at recess, or someone is very upset about whose pencil case is whose, you start by validating the emotions before moving on to problem solving. Something like, it sounds like that felt really frustrating. Or, tell me what happened from your side. That can do a ton for helping students be receptive to solutions.

Heidi 1:26
And that makes total sense. I know I am much more interested in listening to someone when I feel like I have been heard first. So that is your try it tomorrow. Lead with feelings. And if you are finding that helpful, or anything else we share here on the podcast, would you take a second to leave us a five star rating and review? It means a lot, and it helps other teachers find our show.

Heidi 1:49
All right. The topic of today’s episode came straight out of our Quiet Your Chatty Class Challenge. We heard from a lot of teachers during that challenge, and one of the things that kept coming up over and over was talking during transitions.

Emily 2:05
Which, on paper, seems like it shouldn’t be that big of a deal, right? You’re just moving from point A to point B. How hard can it be?

Heidi 2:13
Oh, famous last words. That’s because there is nothing simple about shifting two dozen kids from one activity to the next, while simultaneously managing behavior, time, and all of their materials.

Emily 2:26
And even when you are paying your closest attention, you cannot see everything that’s happening. There’s always something going on that you’re not quite catching, and students know this. Whether they mean to or not, they will exploit those gaps.

Heidi 2:40
Bless their hearts. So think about coming in from recess. You know how it goes. Some kids are putting away the jump ropes and the basketballs. Someone is dumping wood chips out of their shoe and onto the floor. There’s an argument at the drinking fountain. Three other kids are about to brawl over how the game of tag ended. And you know, somehow you’re supposed to be ready to start math in three minutes.

Emily 3:01
Those darling children have flooded into the room like a burst pipe. Their energy goes everywhere at once, and there’s no containing it once it’s already in motion.

Heidi 3:11
That is the core of today’s episode. If you want to tame the talking during transitions, you can’t respond to the chaos after it starts, you have to design the transition so that the chaos doesn’t even have room to get going.

Emily 3:25
We have talked a lot about, it’s an understatement, a lot, but we have talked a lot about how to build a solid transition from the ground up. So episodes 48, 49, and 50 are our full deep dive on that. And I promise you, it is worth a listen. We covered how to give clear directions, how to time them, how to use signals and cues, how to make sure students understand what’s expected from start to finish, all of the things that make a transition efficient.

Heidi 3:55
Yeah, there is so much to cover. We had to do it in three episodes. We didn’t start out that way, but once we got in there, oh no, we can’t do this in one go. So if you want the foundation, go back to those. But what we’re doing today is more specific. We’re looking at what you can do before, during, and after a transition to minimize those side conversations that are giving you so many headaches.

Emily 4:18
So let’s zoom back a little bit and look at the bigger picture. The way you frame your transition determines everything. If you as the teacher, are unclear in your directions, you’re basically inviting students to talk before anyone has even stood up.

Heidi 4:31
Yeah, uncertainty creates conversation. When the kids don’t know exactly what to do, obviously they’re going to ask each other.

Emily 4:38
Which is helpful, in theory, but when a few students ask their neighbors to clarify what to do, it creates a buzz. And humans are impressionable creatures. We go along with what the rest of the group is doing. This is something called social contagion. So when three or four kids ask a quiet question, everyone else picks up the unconscious signal that this is chatting time.

Heidi 4:59
Yeah. There are probably, you know, a couple of legitimate questions going on, but realistically, 80% of the talking is probably not related to the task at hand. So the first move to curb talking is just removing that uncertainty. Go through your instructions step by step, and then add the extra support of including a visual.

Emily 5:20
This could be a slide or a list on the board. Bonus points if you add photos or icons to really make your expectations clear, but the goal is just to provide something students can reference as they move. If students can figure out what to do by themselves, they don’t need to consult their neighbor.

Heidi 5:35
If your transition requires getting out or putting away materials, you can minimize the talking by having everything set up beforehand.

Emily 5:43
Yeah. So just imagine yourself as a wedding coordinator trying to get 300 guests through the buffet line quickly but elegantly. If things are hard to reach or not clearly labeled, that line is going to crawl. But if everything is laid out where people can see it, grab it and move on, the whole thing flows, and everyone stays happy and fed.

Heidi 6:03
Yes. And that same idea works in your classroom. If students need to grab a piece of paper, take the stack of papers off the shelf before the transition starts, and set it on the counter or out where it’s easy to reach, so they don’t have to, like, reach their arms into a shelf or a cubby. And if everyone has to return their Cuisenaire rods after math, have the bin placed where everyone can just drop them in and keep moving.

Emily 6:26
Okay, so now the steps are posted. The materials are easy to access. Now you have to actually give your directions. Now the problem here is when students start moving before they’ve heard everything you said, oh, it just drives me crazy when they do this.

Heidi 6:43
You know, you start listing what you want them to do, and before you finish the sentence, half the class is already in motion based on what they think you’re about to say. And then you’ve got 18 kids asking what page you’re supposed to turn to, because they did not wait for the end.

Emily 6:57
Oh, so frustrating. But there is a fix, and that is to use something called an action cue. And we did talk about this in our transition episodes, but it’s worth revisiting here, because it is so vital. The idea is that you preface your directions with the phrase that tells students exactly when to stop listening and start moving.

Heidi 7:16
So my action cue was always, when I say go. I’m pretty sure that this is something I picked up during my PE methods class, but I adopted it in my classroom because it’s so useful. Instead of saying, Get out your math book and turn to page 86, you say, when I say go, I want you to get out your math book and turn to page 86. And then you pause, make sure everyone is paying attention. And then you say, go.

Emily 7:40
And this really does make such a difference. That cue signals to students that they need to hold on and listen for the whole thing before they do anything. And when kids aren’t trying to predict what you want, they actually listen, which means they don’t have to ask a neighbor what to do.

Heidi 7:56
Now, your action cue is a place where you can add in a little bit of fun. I used go as my standard, but you can use any word you want. Try something seasonal or something silly, like when I say gingerbread, or when I say touchdown.

Emily 8:09
Now, if you are a longtime listener, Hello, we’re glad you’re here, you may remember that when we talk about teacher attention signals, which is the prompt that you use to get your class’s attention, we specifically don’t recommend switching that up. The goal of an attention signal is to create a reflexive response. So when students hear 123 eyes on me, they respond, drop whatever is in their hands and turn to face you. They don’t even have to think about it.

Heidi 8:37
And the structure of that signal is very important, but a transition action cue does something a little different. We want students brains to perk up a little bit and pay closer attention. So that’s where novelty can be your friend.

Emily 8:52
Yeah, when I say go is reliable, but if you really want to make sure they’re listening to every word, give them something unexpected. If you say, when I bock like a chicken, I want you to come to the carpet with your notebook, you can bet that they will be very tuned into what you’re saying.

Heidi 9:10
I’m much more invested now.

Emily 9:12
I will not be demonstrating my chicken bocking today. I’m sorry.

Heidi 9:18
This is an easy way to add spark and boost engagement at the same time. I used to do this thing where I would trick them, so they would be waiting for me to say go, and I would start a word that sounded like it, go-pher. And half the class would start moving, and the other half would be like, Oh, sit down. She said gopher she said, gopher, sit back down. So then everyone sits back down. We go again. Ready? Ghost! And they’re laughing and I’m laughing, you know, but by this point, every single student is hanging on every word.

Emily 9:48
Yeah, because now the routine feels like a game.

Heidi 9:52
Exactly. And sometimes I would really drag this on. Goes, goal, gold, goat, going, that was a good one. And then I would finally whisper, go. And they thought that was the funniest. And I know I sound like I’m belaboring this point, but that 20 seconds bought me a class that was completely on task and enjoying themselves at the same time.

Emily 10:17
This is one of those things, though, that loses impact if you do it every time, but every once in a while, it’s a really easy way to create a moment of shared fun right before a transition. And also, I think it’s a good thing to deploy when you notice that the kids aren’t paying attention. So this is a good way to get them to pay attention.

Heidi 10:33
Exactly. Okay, so now the materials are laid out. You’ve listed the steps on the board, and the kids are waiting for your go signal. Already, you are doing a lot to curb the side talking. But one more thing you might want to add is a quick pause.

Emily 10:49
Here’s how you might layer it into your directions. When I say go, I want you to put away your writing and walk quickly and quietly to your first center. The steps are listed on the board if you’re not sure what to do, but let’s run through them again. Close your eyes and imagine yourself putting your writing notebook inside your desk. Then you’re standing up quietly, tucking in your chair, walking to your center, taking out your folder. Let’s take two deep breaths, and when you’re ready, you can go.

Heidi 11:16
We talked about this mental rehearsal back in episode 247 and it’s a great way to ensure kids feel confident about exactly what to do. Plus that little mindfulness pause makes sure everyone is feeling more grounded and present. You have channeled some of their excess energy, so hopefully there’s less of a drive to chat as they move.

Emily 11:36
And again, this is not something that you’re going to need to do every time that you transition, but if you have a certain transition that tends to fall apart, or something that’s got multiple steps, or a different transition than you usually do, that might be the perfect time to deploy that strategy.

Emily 11:52
Okay, so you’ve set up the transition like a pro, and now the kids are actually moving. Once students are up and going, their nervous systems are more alert. If there’s any friction in the environment, that energy can escalate fast.

Heidi 12:04
Yeah, I learned this the hard way, very early in my teaching career. Gather around, folks. It’s story time. I was being observed by my college professor. It’s one of those formal student teaching observations. And I was wrapping up my lesson by explaining the assignment, which was a worksheet about the picture book Tops and Bottoms. So I explained what to do, and I sent them to grab their papers off the counter before going back to their seats.

Emily 12:30
Uh-oh.

Heidi 12:31
Yeah. The chaos that followed is completely predictable. You can imagine how it went. Kids pushing past each other, arms snaking through the crowd to reach the papers on the counter, the kids at the back pushing in the kids at the front, so that when they had their papers, they couldn’t get out of the way. And then everyone was worked up before they could even start the assignment. It was a disaster.

Emily 12:52
And I could just picture your professor back there just writing this all down on your evaluation.

Heidi 12:58
Oh yeah, oh yeah, Dr. Bushman, I can still see him back in the back of my room. And during the debrief afterward, he asked me if I thought there was anything I could have done differently with paper distribution. And I so clearly remember thinking, huh, paper distribution? It had never even encouraged me that that was a problem, let alone a solvable one. I just thought that’s how it worked.

Emily 13:20
Yeah, there are so many transition moments like that where we’ve just accepted the chaos as unavoidable, rather than realizing that we designed it to be chaotic.

Heidi 13:32
Right. And there really are so many things I could have done. I could have dismissed a few kids at a time to grab their papers. I could have had the five table captains grabbed the papers for their tables while everyone else went to their seats. I could have set stacks of papers on each table while the kids were moving to the carpet.

Emily 13:48
Once you recognize that the goal is to prevent bottlenecks, there are so many possible solutions. If the turn-in basket is sitting right next to the stack of notebooks students need to pick up, you’ve just created a traffic jam at that spot. Spread stuff out, move the notebooks to a different table for that transition.

Heidi 14:05
Yeah, even if you don’t want to store them there permanently, just move them when everyone needs them. And it makes everything so much easier.

Emily 14:12
And in almost every situation, when the whole class needs to move at once, you want to stagger it. Dismiss a row or a table at a time, instead of everyone together.

Heidi 14:21
And this is another place you can add some fun. Everyone wearing blue can go, everyone who has a dog at home, everyone who likes root beer, everyone with the letter L in their name.

Emily 14:30
Just be prepared to arbitrate decisions. Does this bit of blue on my shoelace count? What if I have an L in my last name?

Heidi 14:39
Why? Why is it that they care so much about rules that don’t matter and they just, ugh. But staggering how many students move at once limits the opportunities for side conversations that turn into actual disruptions.

Emily 14:53
One place this might be especially helpful is at the doorway when students are returning from recess or lunch or specials, try meeting them at the door, and think of it as providing an energetic roadblock.

Heidi 15:05
Yeah, you’re helping them center before they bring in all of their excess energy into the room for your math lesson. So stand at the door, smile, let them see that you are glad to see them again.

Emily 15:16
Even if you could use an extra 10 minutes of peace and quiet. And then you run through your expectations and send in a few students at a time.

Heidi 15:25
And I know it sounds like this would slow things down, but really, it almost always speeds things up. Instead of the whole class piling in at once and taking forever to settle, you are sending in calm, smaller groups who actually can just dive in and get started.

Emily 15:40
And if you really want to set up a transition for calm, one of the easiest things you can do is to think about the sensory environment. What students see, hear, and feel, can either give their nervous system a cue to ramp up or to stay regulated.

Heidi 15:53
So one thing you might want to try is adjusting the lighting. If you have control over that, you know, you could lower some of the blinds or turn off one of the light panels, just, you know, don’t go full dark, or then they’ll end up screaming.

Emily 16:04
Yes. And add some music. It’s so easy. Just go with relaxing instrumentals, not fun pop songs, even if kids would prefer the pop songs. Plus music fills the silence, so it seems like there’s less need for talking.

Heidi 16:19
And we actually have a Spotify playlist specifically for this. It’s called Teacher Approved Calming Piano, and we will put a link to it in the show notes so it is there whenever you need it.

Emily 16:31
All right. Good news everyone, your students have successfully moved quickly and quietly. Now comes the third part.

Heidi 16:39
I bet you thought your transition was done, but you’ve still got one of the most important moments. After the transition ends and before the next activity begins. This is probably where most of the talking happens, and it’s also the most preventable.

Emily 16:53
So you had all that momentum of the students getting where they needed to go, and then nothing They’re waiting for you to get started, or for the last few stragglers to arrive. And as we all know, a student with nothing to do will always, always find something to do.

Heidi 17:10
And that something probably won’t be the thing you want them to be doing. So every transition needs a landing pad. This is an independent activity that can start the moment the transition ends without needing any help from you.

Emily 17:24
We actually have a whole section about landing pads in our upcoming book, Structure and Spark, which is available for pre order now.

Heidi 17:31
Woo hoo.

Emily 17:32
Because it’s one of those things that seems unimportant but makes an enormous difference to how your whole day flows. The landing pad fills the gap between transition is over and instruction begins.

Heidi 17:43
It’s how you capture attention immediately, so you never have the hassle of trying to compete with 25 little different side adventures going on. You just get everyone involved in the same task so it’s easy to switch gears when you’re ready to go.

Emily 17:57
And it doesn’t have to be academic. After recess, a landing pad could absolutely be silent reading or free drawing. When students rotate to a new center, maybe the expectation is that they start a task card while the rest of the group gets settled. The goal is just that every student has a purpose the second they arrive.

Heidi 18:15
Even if that purpose is just playing the quiet game. When you’re choosing landing pads, consider what comes next. A landing pad that connects to the next activity is ideal, if you can manage that. So if you’re heading into math, use a quick math warm up. Moving into writing, you can have your students open their notebooks and start drafting story ideas.

Emily 18:33
And also take into account where the transition ends. If students are at desks, written work makes sense. If they’ll be at the carpet, maybe it’s a calm game or reading aloud from a joke book.

Heidi 18:43
Because you as the teacher usually have your own tasks to do during a transition. You know, like setting up for the next lesson, the best landing pad is always one that students can run on their own. The last thing you need is to be managing the landing pad at the same time you’re trying to do everything else.

Emily 19:00
And now you just let them finish this round of the quiet game before stepping in and starting your read aloud. Everyone is paying attention and ready to go without any extra work from you.

Heidi 19:09
And look at that. We did it. We got one activity cleaned up, moved everyone quickly and quietly to a new location, and now we’re ready for the next thing.

Emily 19:17
Phew. Efficient transitions require a ton of strategy, but we promise you have got this, and it gets so easy the more you do it, you just do it naturally after you have learned how to do this right.

Heidi 19:29
Yes. So start by considering what happens before, during and after each transition. Reduce uncertainty by posting the steps, organizing materials, and using a centering pause. During the transition. plan your traffic flow, stagger movement, set a calm sensory environment, and reduce idle time after. Have a landing pad ready and waiting before the transition starts.

Emily 19:53
The idea running through all these strategies is the same. We want to design our transitions so that talking doesn’t even have a place to start.

Heidi 20:02
And if you would like some extra help for taming the chattiness, we have a resource made exactly for this. It’s called the Quiet Class Quest. Some of you have tried it out already, and it’s a three day mini unit with everything you need to get students genuinely invested in protecting quiet focus time. And it’s very cute, if I do say so myself.

Emily 20:20
It is cute, and it’s fun. And it’s free when you sign up for a free trial of the Teacher Approved Club. And as a Club member, you also get access to bonus audio trainings and materials for other challenges that come up at this time in the year, and there are a lot of them at this time of the year. So you can sign up at the link in the show notes, or head to secondstorywindow.net/trial.

Emily 20:44
Now for our Teacher Approved Tip of the Week, where we share an actionable tip to help you elevate what matters and simplify the rest. This week’s teacher approved tip is to review your expectations. So tell us about this, Heidi.

Heidi 20:56
Well, this is perfect for spring, because by now your expectations that felt crystal clear in September are getting a bit blurry.

Emily 21:04
Yeah, or very, very blurry. It’s like they’ve forgotten, like, how to be in school. They’re just already checked out for summer.

Heidi 21:12
Yes, there is definitely that. So let’s counter it by keeping your expectations front of mind. One way to do this is with a class discussion. Ask students to rate themselves on a scale from one to five about how well they think the class is doing with a specific procedure. So it sounds like, how are we doing with morning arrival? Give me a number, and then you have a conversation. What’s going well? What could we do better?

Emily 21:36
Students usually know exactly where the gaps are, and when they name it themselves, they’re much more motivated to do something about it.

Heidi 21:43
The second way you can approach this problem is through pre-corrections, which we’ve talked about recently. Before a routine or a transition post the expected behaviors and briefly run through them. Here’s what we’re doing, here’s how we do it. That way, the expectations are fresh in everyone’s mind when it matters the most.

Emily 22:01
So we have two resources that make both of these really easy. The first is our procedure review slides. You add the name of a procedure to a slide, students rate the class, and you click to show the rating. If most students say dismissal is about a three, you click three times and three stars appear. After you’ve gone through your procedures, you’ve got a clear shared picture of what’s working and what needs work.

Heidi 22:23
And the second is this month’s club resource. It’s our pre-correction slides to help you keep expectations alive all the way to that final bell. We are calling it Ditching the Glitch. So a glitch is when things don’t happen the way they’re supposed to. And so the slides give you a quick visual way to remind everyone of what’s expected, so there’s no room for forgetting.

Emily 22:44
And both of these are in the Teacher Approved Club. So if you’re already a member, you can find the pre-correction Ditch the Glitch resource in the member library, and you can get the procedure rating slides with your monthly credits. So if you are not yet a member, now is a great time, especially with that Quiet Class Quest waiting for you.

Heidi 23:04
Okay, to wrap up the show, we’re sharing what we’re giving extra credit to this week. Emily, what gets your extra credit?

Emily 23:10
Okay, this is so dumb, but it’s making me so happy. So I am giving extra credit to my acrylic straw holder.

Heidi 23:17
So wait, is the holder acrylic, or is the, are the straws acrylic? Or are they both acrylic?

Emily 23:24
They’re probably both acrylic, but the straw holder itself is acrylic.

Heidi 23:28
Okay.

Emily 23:29
So the reason I wanted this is the way, I had my kitchen organized by professional organizers a few years ago, and they made in my silverware drawer this, like whole section where straws could go. But that means, like, every kind of straw of every different size was in this spot, so every time you needed a straw, you’re digging through it to see which one fits the specific water bottle that you want to use. And the kids in the house, there’s a lot of different straws going on in there, like a lot of different sizes. So of course, there’s all my tall ones for all of my Stanley tumblers. But then there’s shorter ones that attach to the straw in my hydro jugs, and then there’s the ones that fit my kids’ Owalas. And you know what I mean, they’re just all different. And so finding the one you need was annoying. And so I saw these straw holders. So all it is is like a long rectangle with divided spots, so like five little dividers.

Heidi 24:20
Like a silverware caddy?

Emily 24:21
No, no. It’s like, this is one of those times that being a podcast is hard to describe this. But let me tell you where it goes, and then maybe you can picture the size better.

Heidi 24:29
Okay.

Emily 24:30
It goes on the inside of a cabinet door, so it’s not very deep, and it’s like, probably eight inches wide, but probably only, like an inch, an inch and a half deep. And then it has little dividers in it, and it’s also only about, like, two inches tall. And then there’s another one, just like that, that’s completely open, that goes a little higher to keep them all straight in each one. So instead of one, what am I trying to say, like one, really tall, acrylic one, it’s just two small ones that are spaced out from each other. You can space them however you want them.

Heidi 25:02
Oh, okay.

Emily 25:02
Based on like, where, if your shelf inside the cupboard might hit is where you might want to space those, or the the height of your straws. And so it was so easy to install, I organized all the straws in there by size, and I have been absolutely delighted every time I go to get a straw, and it’s just like, whoop, found the one I needed immediately, did not have to dig through my drawer. It’s so dumb, but it’s cheap, and it really solved a pain point in my day. So I will link to it in the show notes, if you are a household of many length straws.

Heidi 25:38
That definitely deserve extra credit.

Emily 25:41
What are you giving extra credit to, Heidi?

Heidi 25:43
Well, I’m giving extra credit to my new dehumidifier, which is hilarious, because I just got a big, fancy humidifier for the room next to this. But so I have learned the hard way that having raised ceilings in a bathroom is not ideal, because all of the moisture gets trapped up there, and I am tired of having to scrub moldy spots off my ceiling.

Emily 26:05
With a mop.

Heidi 26:07
Yes, I did use a mop. Yeah, I hate it. So I went on the hunt for a little dehumidifier, and so far, this has been working great, and was only $30. I wasn’t sure, so I got the cheapest one, and it’s been great. I have experimented running it with the ceiling fan on and one day and then off the next. And both times it managed to pull four teaspoons of water out of the air. I was quite shocked.

Emily 26:30
I’m really impressed that you made this a scientific experiment and you measure the moisture.

Heidi 26:35
Such a teacher.

Emily 26:37
Well, you know, it’s not helpful when people tell you that something works if they can’t compare it for you, so you’re just doing that real science work out here.

Heidi 26:45
I was like, is my fan doing anything? Clearly, it’s not.

Emily 26:48
No, I don’t think mine is either.

Heidi 26:50
Yeah, and mine is cleaned recently, so, you’d think. But anyway, this is a tiny, little workhorse. I don’t think it would work well in a big room, but if you also have a small room, like the bathroom or a closet that gets humid, I would definitely recommend this. I will put a link to it in the show notes.

Emily 27:05
Well, I’m definitely checking this out since I have the same problem, although I haven’t had to go as far as mopping my ceiling, because my ceilings are not as high as yours. But I do have a problem with the fan not working because it’s inside the little toilet room instead of near the shower. And so I do have a problem with moisture in my bathroom, so I’m gonna check that out.

Heidi 27:23
Well, there’s a link in the show notes to do that for you.

Emily 27:25
Thank you.

Heidi 27:27
That is it for today’s episode. Design your transitions to tame the talking before it starts.

Emily 27:32
And if this episode was useful, share it with a teacher friend who is feeling the stress right now, because we know there are a lot of you out there.

Heidi 27:41
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Teacher Approved. I’m Heidi.

Emily 27:45
And I’m Emily. Thank you for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe in your podcast app so that you never miss an episode.

Heidi 27:51
You can connect with us and other teachers in the Teacher Approved Facebook group. We’ll see you here next week. Bye for now.

Emily 27:58
Bye.